Floatr Means You Don't Fit In So We Will Breach Your Contract
When InterviewFlex fell through, I started looking for new clients. Somehow I came across an existing contact in my network who was running a business called Floatr. I messaged him and the rest was history...we knew some of the same people, he was familiar with one of my former clients in his space - one that I was very successful with. We met, he told me he had to speak with his "Commercial Sales Success" guy or whatever his title was and wanted me to speak with him. There were some candidates that the guy had in hand already, so it wasn't a done deal.
I met GSJ via phone and we talked briefly. Because the founder was onboard with me working with them, he asked a few questions - agreed I was the right fit and the contract was done and done.
Very quickly I realized I walked into a less than ideal situation:
1. The salesguys who were there were gone in under a year and apparently "did not do anything", they were sending emails out and not providing market feedback or creating deals.
2. The pipeline was a joke and being managed as if there were real opportunities. If someone thought the service was interesting or had a demo it was an opportunity. I had to drop out a number of "MQL/SQL" because they were dead - no further interest.
3. GSJ was a Marketing guy, not a sales guy which was super apparent. He came from big companies like Microsoft and was completely clueless on how to do "go-to-market" for a start up. He defined an MQL/Prospect as anyone who would do business and an SQL as a meeting. Suspect is anyone who is the right fit to do business with, prospect is someone where a conversation/interest is expressed, opportunity is deal defined. There was no marketing to create MQL's!
4. The Founder was playing salesguy and handed all control over the company to "Corporate people"
5. There was no process. Process was defined as "these are the lists you will work on, we will assess the list quality, pivot if we need to, and start something else". That is not process, that is campaign management - that isn't go-to-market where you define the ICP, type of company/size, and develop iterative messaging to see what works - that is MY process.
6. There were meetings and discussions which continually took away from my prospecting time, then they wanted to know why I worked only a small portion of the list they gave me three days ago.
7. I hated the CRM, Close.IO, which was so cumbersome to use - and the prior people loaded it with tons of unqualified prospects....it ate up time.
8. I have significant experience in their industry....and know what works and what doesn't work and how to solve their problems.
During the month, I gave them valuable insights to help drive messaging, was beginning to unlock leads, and started to work on solving some of the messaging/prospecting issues that were there. That was called "pushback" and not collaboration. The moron of the Chief Commercial Officer told me he would support me and work for me - but when push came to shove, it was "his way or the highway"...never respecting or considering how much industry knowledge and startup expertise I was bringing in.
I was so utterly constrained that I could not be successful. I even spoke to the Founder about that - in his role as Founder and Salesguy. He basically told me not to worry and indicated that this may go longer than the trial.
We had a meeting which was moved from Friday to Monday. I was not told about the move or asked if it worked for me. The meeting was a bit contentious as I shared feedback. I was exhausted from the weekend and could not remember who I had spoken to with respect to the pipeline and was not prepared (a fact they threw in my face later). Later that day, my email was inactive and I got the call.
I countered the Founder who bought into the lies about me not documenting in the CRM, my argumentative pushback, etc. I told him the CMO is the wrong person and that they are heading in the wrong direction. I kept the door open. A bunch of bozos who know nothing about running a business of that kind.
Let's see if they reach out in the future. I feel a restructuring coming very soon.
InterviewFlex.AI Means Flexible Engagement Start Date: Equates to Breach of Contract
Another winner of a client or non-client as the case may be. I am calling out the company because the founder, Alex, should know better.
I talked to the founder, Alex Osaya, back in February. I reached out to him to see if he would partner with a company I was working with in the HR space. We got to talking and it turned out he was looking for a sales and marketing specialist - right up my alley.
The company I was working with reviewed his site and information and found it to be too competitive - did not move forward with meeting him nor did they allow me to concurrently engage. When the client I was working with ended the engagement due to lack of demand and interest, I reached out to Alex who was happy to hear from me and we met in March on a Saturday afternoon - did a demo and review. I sent a proposal with a start date of April 1st which was moved to April 13th per his request.
On Friday, April 10th I received an email from Alex stating that he would not be able to move forward on April 13th. We had a kickoff meeting scheduled for the 11th at noon to review messaging. He never sent the credentials for the email or CRM. I called him, had to call a few times and he finally answered the phone. He told me he had to delay the engagement until June (one month) because he had a large client in the works who required SOC compliance and that he had to be heads down on getting in line and could not focus or take on any additional work. Especially if I were to focus on prospecting for larger accounts. I understood and responded that it made no sense to engage if I landed some larger accounts...it made sense and a month delay is feasible. He clearly stated when he delayed that "my services are definitely needed and he would engage". I even asked if money would be an issue given the expense of the compliance effort and he told me "no". I expected to engage in June.
I started seeing LinkedIN messages about 2 weeks later. Messages coming from Alex touting the need for his solution. I thought that was odd because with the compliance need, he couldn't take on more clients - so why the marketing? I responded to one of the messages saying that they were cool and it is great to warm up the market. No response.
I reached out before Memorial Day asking if we were ready to start in June. Got no response. Called Alex in the AM, messaged him on LinkedIN (he was more responsive there) and through my business email. Received an email stating that because of compliance and "business issues" he would not be able to engage in June. He provided no further info on when. I then called him, was unable to reach him - tried a few times to get him on the phone.
Received an email stating that I was unprofessional for repeatedly calling him and to stop calling - after he "gave me an update". He refused to speak to me. I responded that I held the time per the SIGNED AGREEMENT and was counting on his engagement financially. He responded that he was unable to engage (he also wanted to pause) now and that he would reach out when he was ready.
When I went to review the LinkedIN interactions, I saw he blocked me. I knew then there was going to be no engagement and I was completely and utterly screwed. I then responded to his final email and told him not to reach out to me - ever. And he called me unprofessional?
While I believe he did have some residual compliance issues, I also believe the more pricey LinkedIN campaigns were working and he had no need for my services any longer. I am glad I have integrity and honesty in my business dealings.
Lessons Learned:
1. When you sign a contract, it is a legal agreement. I did not have a termination or cancellation clause which I will going forward - unfortunately it is needed. This is only the second time a prospect reneged on a signed agreement. While this is a clear breach of contract, I have no legal recourse.
2. It is not "unprofessional" or unreasonable to want to discuss the situation, especially with a signed contract in hand. He refused to speak to me, to provide a new start date, or explanation other than what he provided which was not good enough.
3. He is also an independent recruiter and should understand what reneging on a contract means.
I wish him luck in his endeavors. Karma is a bitch. Someday he will need some sales support - many other talented people out there - none like me. We are definitely not a fit from an integrity, honesty, values perspective for sure.
Why You Should Not Work with Founders Who "Never Carried a Bag": One Good Example
Recently, Rich Rosen - a premiere Sales Recruiter posted a LinkedIN job for a company where the company was on a great trajectory and he noted - the Founders of the company actually carried a bag.
Carrying a Bag is a phrase that refers to someone who has done sales before, had a quota, and knows what it is like to sell. Most founders, especially in technology, come up through the engineering and development ranks. Usually they will partner with someone who has Sales or Sales/Marketing experience.
Recently, I had the unfortunate experience to work with a startup where the founders not only did not carry a bag, but they did not hire or have any experienced sales/marketing professionals. And, much like some of my other engagements - did not end well.
When I first engaged with them, it was OK. They gave me a baseline of what was needed and it started out pretty well. I started in one industry segment where critical feedback was received that their tech was not up to competitive standards. This was validated by the CTO who was working on developing further. I was switched to another industry segment and....right off the bat one major meeting secured and handful of other meetings were set. The CEO ran the meetings and was supposed to follow up...found out later, he was no salesguy and did nothing much after the meetings.
After I attended a weekly team meeting, one of the last ones. I shared feedback from my experience as a senior marketing executive. The marketing team, all based in India, were sending emails to the CRM contacts on a weekly basis, loading thousands of irrelevant contacts into the CRM, and were not positioning the company on a business/tech basis. The CTO was walking around claiming they had no competition. The targets they set were based on projected vapor....as there was no history or measurement of what was actually attainable, they were forecasting based on what they THOUGHT should happen.
They hired an AE who they indicated was competitive to me, when in fact, she (who turned out to be a total shit) was a senior sales executive whom I should have been supporting. After a 3 month lag, we were introduced and began working together. I provided her with appropriate market intelligence and set up a few meetings - feedback I received was that their market was in a downcycle and investment was not happening at the time. I was provided one list, no refined messaging, was not invited to any demostrations/discussions, and no further weekly meetings. The AE proceeded to tell me that the CEO thought I was difficult, would not take feedback, and would not listen to them. They did not like me from the start, I so learned. Ironically, this is what I felt about them.
Things progressed. I received zero indication that there was anything wrong with my performance. The AE declared "she loved me" and I was helping her immensely - which apparently was not communicated to the management. I ran a discovery call with a major account that she could not do resulting from a conflict, had a number of discussions and disqualified accounts, and diligently followed up on leads. One of whom wanted to meet the COO at a trade show. I spoke to the COO who was supposed to text the prospect....and, of course, never did.
At the end, the AE told me they were hiring full time and I was likely to be let go. The company hired a full time biz dev guy with zero experience in their industry who I was told made a 100 calls a day and was hung up on regularly - no surprise there. He sent an email blast ahead of a trade show with a link that did not work, blasted prospects that I had developed a relationship with, and claimed he created key messaging, accounts, and god knows what for the company - all within a month or two. I received a call from the COO who in less than one minute, without a thank you or anything - told me my engagement was over - "We hired full time and would have kept you, but you did not set up enough meetings. Any conflict you have with (Shitbizdevguy) you need to deal with him". Exact words. From a COO who did not set up any meetings himself, nor close enough to pay for himself, and never talked directly with me to assess my performance. There is more, but I am saving that for the book I will write down the road.
The COO then posted a delightful customer testimonial from a customer that I BROUGHT IN, which I reposted to my network saying - I brought in this customer and if you want a real ABM focused, non phone banging rep - hire me, they just terminated me. OH...the team was PISSED OFF by that. I really don't know why, because it was 100% true. The post was taken down, the team blocked me on LI. The AE who was going to give me a reference never did - so much for her "love and my great support". I blocked her.
In a year and a bit (fractionally that equates to 4 months) what did I actually do?
Set up one major meeting in a key market where the management flew out to meet their management. Due to economic conditions, the deal did not go forward at that time. Not sure if anyone ever followed up. Called the Line of Business Head for an Enterprise Account who took customized information back to his team - the inept Marketing Manager made a connection on the IT side where it was going to go to RFP, because of the connection I had made - it bypassed RFP went straight to the stakeholders and resulted in a meeting, trial, and closed deal - one of the first organic deals for the company. I ran a discovery call with a major company in a target segment. I identified a key market opportunity for the solution - a real area of need that the solution can solve for. And, I set up - not only a few key meetings (no it wasn't a lot) - which progressed to demo, but also found a way in for the AE in a few key accounts. So, to the COO's point, I did not set up ENOUGH meetings, but found a way in to key target accounts, expanded market opportunity, got great market intelligence, and helped secure an opportunity that paid for myself 10X over. But, I did not set up enough meetings.
She told me that not long before my termination, the CEO spent a good amount of time screaming at her cause she did not make their unrealistic targets. A few months later, I saw a post for an AE for the company - and feel her days are numbered. The market in the US is kind of limited, two full time expensive AE's are really not necessary at this point.....but, hey - what do I know??
Why Do I Continue to Do This??
Recently, Shagun Malhotra of SkyStem had reached out to me with the desire to re-engage. I had taken her company to market fifteen years ago, worked with her and her business partner for 8 years helping to build the company. I engaged for a little over 3 months and without a phone call or any contact, she emailed me saying that "the results are not what was expected" and the engagement was over. I was using lists provided by them, leads provided by them, and had been clear about navigating accounts. Two demos in 1.5 weeks worth of effort is not bad. Not to mention that there were a number of leads for February, March, July, and so forth. She is a massive micromanager who never listens to anyone - my lists that I was working on were DELETED without talking to me, there was no response to emails I sent, and when I went to wrap up things - all the tasks I had beyond a week out were DELETED. I told her never to contact me again,
Cloudsyte was another head scratcher. I called them on and off for at least 3 to 4 years waiting until we could work together, the opportunity came, but I could not engage. A few months later when availability came again, we engaged. After a slow start, they picked up steam with many demos - like one to four a month, leads, and they closed business. After they had their first event - where - according to them - a number of people mentioned MY NAME and knew me as well as Cloudsyte....shortly thereafter - they ended the engagement. The CEO, Kennedy, had the nerve to call me unprofessional. Recently, I saw that they are working with some Business Development advisor. I wonder how much business he pulled for them after I laid the groundwork. That was their change in strategy.
Back Thru the Future is another one. I worked with them for 14 years total. 2.5 years into the initial engagement they terminated me, then brought me back with an apology because their full-time hires were terrible. I outperformed them (they closed the business from leads I generated and did not do much more). Later, I was terminated AGAIN (after bringing some deals) in favor of some kind of association marketing effort executed by one of the rudest Marketing Managers. She threatened me because I accidentally reached out to her father. I never received a lead from her, her campaigns were crap, and she was beyond rude. She left the company about a year or two after they terminated me. Recently they hired some young gun Account Manager, same profile as they did years ago. Good luck to them.
And there is more. I seem to get stuck with some of the worst clients....people who don't pay, don't pay on time, treat me like a disposable glove. I am more valued, more respected, and treated better at my slightly above state pay - retail job than with clients who are supposed to be "groundbreaking" entrepreneurs. Yes, I am fractional, yes I am disposable, but do I really deserve this?
I am in the process of deciding whether to continue Magnus Marketing Group and in what form - part time with another part time job and some clients, keep getting clients and hope the quality improves - the ones that I work with now are good people and treat me well, or ditch it all together.
Being fractional is not all great pay and great work. It sucks overall. 20 years and counting...why?
Yes, There Are People Like This Out There - The Rejection From AI Derangement Syndrome
Context: I saw a fractional lead gen/marketing support position posted for a Custom Software Development firm that was focused on Manufacturing/Distribution. It was a perfect fit, I had an opportunity in hand that they could work on (did not mention it), had a great first call where there was a lot of sympatico. My experience was a fit. Some red flags for me: the owner (interviewer) took out at six figure business loan, hired a "very green" salesperson, and clearly had no outbound experience. He wanted to "move forward", but did not meet me. After a meeting that took place two weeks after the initial call....this is the "rejection letter" I received. I had already decided not to work with him for similar reasons. Commentary in brackets.
The Rejection Email in full with company redacted:
I wanted to get back to you. I decided no. It was going to be a yes initially, however our meeting changed my mind. [Such empathy, my healthcare bills won't resolve themselves...so you WERE going to work with me, but decided against it and waited three weeks to tell me this in this manner]
Even if it was a go, it isn’t time for an appointment booking / lead generation service, but I think a lead/appointment generation service is overall a good idea. Our sales rep isn’t trained up to the point of being able to adequately catch the work that would be thrown at them yet. They still have a long training period to go through. It would probably be a few months before they are ready. [So I gave you the great idea to hire or use a firm, which isn't going to be me....nice!]
I wanted to give you specific feedback versus leaving you with a blanket, “not interested”. Three specific things from our meeting made me decide that we weren’t a good fit due to underlying philosophical principles. I am sure you are effective, but there are things in your technique that are not in line with what our company is about. I don’t think we are a match for those reasons. There were plenty of reasons you would be great. Your initiative to reach out initially was amazing. I think you could effectively get us appointments. I believe you would get results. I don’t think you believe in some of the same principles and therefore there isn’t the alignment I would want, and the initial impression/engagement I would want our future clients to have. [And you can make this decision without further discussion and talking to me - your interpersonal skills are outstanding!] I would prefer to partner with someone who fundamentally, and to their core, has a belief in the same basic principles. The three specific things were:
- You used a technique of immediacy by saying something along the lines of, if you don’t initiate now the slots are limited and there may not be a place later. There is always time, and a decision should never be rushed. Our sales cycle is slow and relaxed. We are creating lifelong relationships. No one should rush into that. In addition, if slots are limited then it means you can’t scale effectively to handle any load. Our company is built to do just that. [I am a fractional resource actively looking for clients, with ONE slot available...if you don't take it, someone else will and it could be months to years before I can work with you - this is TRUTH, not technique.]
- We had some disagreement on the ability to have computer systems do proper lead generation and appointment setting. It may not be built, but it can be. Our very goal here is to replace human labor with computer systems. My very goal is to replace myself with computer systems and I build toward that all the time. We always want to stand behind the philosophy that technology can and should replace our efforts so that we (the human race) may rise to better and more creative efforts in life. I want a company that is run by computers and am working to build it out over the next many years. [This is AI Derangement Syndrome, technology is nowhere near replacing people and for consultative sales the AI Lead Gen Agent would not work - the level of business knowledge and deep questioning is imperative to find strategic fit. Plus, AI Lead Gen is nowhere near capable yet. I do agree he should replace himself with AI.]
- You stated that “you can’t say that” when I said something along the lines of custom software is a bad choice if you can buy something out of the box. We are here not to sell our software necessarily, but to guide customers toward the best choice for them. Often, I work to help someone I meet find a better solution than we can offer. If we engage in a bad fit, we will be stuck with it for a miserably long time. We should always work to let our leads know all the reasons not to work with us so that they can make the best informed decision. [Never said any such thing. I have been involved with custom software development for 25 years and would always prescribe the best fit solution, in fact, I recommend clients past/present when possible. I think I am more than experienced to know how to handle prospects]
It was a pleasure to meet you, and I am sure you will do well. [I think 20 years is a testament of how well I actually do...don't need your affirmation, bub}.
But, he won't. The business loan will come due, the sales rep who is so "green" (in his words} will likely get frustrated and leave, and the amount of business that will come...not much - especially with no outbound messaging and support. He doesn't know how to sell cold. Clearly this guy can't make good business decisions. Personally, I believe he just plain out did not like me very much or was put off by my physical appearance. He also noted something about how my bandwidth was not sufficient for scaling, when he was hiring for a fractional position.
Another example of the bottom feeder companies that inherit the Earth. This is why it is critical to do proper due diligence and not just take any opportunity that presents. I clearly dodged a bullet here.
When a "Friend" Isn't a Friend: A Sergei Story
When Sergei Polevikov was headed to Federal Prison - while all of his other "friends" abandoned him - I continued to not only work with him, but helped this guy in any way I could. He trained me to do his job which was business development mostly and I even provided him with information that could help him and his family. At one point early on, he asked me if we were friends and not just business colleagues. I knew he needed someone outside his family to talk to and it is good to have a friend like him - business friend, math and AI guy who could help - interesting fellow. He treated me always really well. So...why not?
When he "went away" to Otisville, I made sure he knew what was going on in the business. I wrote him cards and letters to make sure he was apprised of all the meetings and happenings. I liked doing it as it was like writing a pen pal. I wrote him about the meetings, company strategy, and threw in some personal stuff - about my retail job, about driving on the highway and my windshield wipers broke, sent him some funny jokes that only he would understand cause they were math jokes...things like that. I did some research he asked me for. I also sent him books for various occasions like "Bosses Day" and Christmas so he would not fall behind with respect to the technology. He and I emailed almost everyday and he even called me on occasion to find out what was going on and say "HI" in person.
I left his company when I realized there was no real hope of success, particularly while he was not there to work with. My own reputation was getting killed working with his business partners and it just wasn't feasible to continue any longer.
When he received early release, about a month after I walked away, I expected him to call to debrief. No call came. In fact, I only knew he was out of prison because I saw him run to LinkedIN and post. His first post was to his real friend and company partner, I person I disliked more than....whatever most people hate....and did not trust. The person did not support me at all while I was there. I promised Sergei if I could not get his company where it needed to be, I would help him get a job. So, after not hearing from him for some time, I reached out and asked if I could help him with the job search - since his situation was - in his words "DIRE" and he was going to run out of money by the next Spring. He has a wife (who he did not mention was divorcing him) and two kids, one a kid at home. I know what that is like - the anxiety when your sole breadwinner father is unemployed and the unemployment is running out....
I set up a couple of interviews for him including one with a client I was working with. Then I called someone who he knew who was rude as anything - horrible woman. I think I told him about it and he proceeded to reprimand me pretty harshly for talking to her.
That is when a 2 hour conversation happened, late on a Sunday night in October 2023. The details aren't important, but I got the impression that he wasn't too keen on getting any type of job - he was awfully picky for a guy on house arrest still. He seemed to be doing OK. I did get a rather weak apology for not contacting me after his return - but by then all the leads and things I had done, withered away.
We proceeded to "INMAIL" via LinkedIN for some time after that. I sent him an Amazon gift card for some books - an inside joke and a gift card to Stop-N-Shop (there was one nearby) so he and his family could enjoy a nice Christmas dinner without worrying about spending money. His response to the gift cards were "What is this for??" - I don't recall my answer, but thought it quite rude. How about saying "Thank you for the Christmas gift for me and my family - friend Rachel"? Nope.
In the New Year, I asked him to join me and help me with my dream - launching the Sales Intelligence practice. His answer: "I must politely decline" - or "NO". Not - I can't work with you right now or maybe I can help you in a different capacity - like reviewing the research for financial content, teaching me financial analysis (or refreshing my knowledge), or I know someone who can help you....it was a "NO" outright. This piece of shit, "friend", totally devalued me and swatted me away like a pesty fly - which is probably how he considered me all along. This 'person' told me he cared about me - not once, but twice! He cared about me so that I would not reveal the truth about this completely selfish, self centered, likely covert narcissist (as most White Collar criminals are - narcissists and antisocial behavior).
After I ripped his research, which was lacking in critical facts. He then proceeded to Block me. A good thing as a lot of what he wrote was so inaccurate or lacking, it was painful to read. Plus, he is going around claiming to be a "start-up expert", "AI expert", and "healthcare expert" which was painful to see - I would say he is an "AI expert" and that is about that. I actually wrote a vision document for his company and generated real opportunities....something he did not do while I worked with him.
It is hard to believe that there are people like this in the world. You want to believe that there is good in everyone. He is a prime example of why people who go to prison are so mistrusted and treated poorly. I know not everyone who has gone to prison is like him, many learn from their mistakes, make amends, and go to therapy to become better people.
Lesson learned.
And Sales Means What? Today
I never fail to be astonished by some of the hires that start-ups and entrepreneurial firms make and am shocked that they actually succeed. More and more, in examining and researching companies, I see a lot of people with the title VP of Business Development or Sales who are nothing of the sort. Loads of "content pushers" out there, highly educated and/or experienced people with not a prospecting stint to their name, and "sales" people who have no real sales experience.
I can somewhat understand experienced or highly educated people selling certain solutions, particularly if it IS a more consultative sale. But I wonder really how someone without inherent sales ability can actually be successful selling? And, what I refer to is more the extreme.
Traditional methods of sales and marketing even are definitely going by the wayside or - evolving. Prospecting and cold calls in terms of pure telemarketing don't work, but making phone calls using a higher level intelligence and solution type positioning DOES work. Press releases and other PR tactice don't work, but "managed content" through social media and other channels DOES. And so on.
Regardless, I still think sales and marketing - as a discipline - is still a discipline and is NOT something that just ANYONE can do - or do well for that matter. And multiple channels, new and old school, are still viable for developing business and growing markets.
Unfortunately also, everyone seems to be of the mindset of "NOW" - using the fastest means for achieving revenue (i.e. partner, channels, etc) without spending time really getting to KNOW the customer, market, and finding what really works for scaleable traction. Get rich quick, sell out fast, pad the pockets - but not sell, market, build, and sustain a solution.